What do you do when people are actively and intentionally fighting against ministry. I love my older adult Sunday School class, but they are fighting against the success of the contemporary service. They are lying about the pastor (and refusing to confront him) to try and run him off.

I feel like by being in that class I'm supporting (by association) what they are doing. I also feel that I've accomplished as much change as they will have.

Can I justify staying?
boink

I like the point that ministry needs to be specialized when you're young and then it will grow with you...mostly. You're dead on that 70-something people don't "get" a postmodern lesson - though they're living in a postmodern world so there will be some bleedover - still, it's generally the traditional "Get out your Bibles and the lesson book - Ezra chapter 2... Okay - question #1 is..." in the older crowd. I still like to learn that way - I'm in the gap, I guess - since I'm probably a global learner...

Still, I hear gripes from the old people that "all the programing is for the young people," who say "all the programing is for the old people" - so who's getting all this programing? Here's my point again - ALL programing is age targeted. We have Sunday school classes for all ages here - and people group according to grade (if in school) or to, well, other people their age. The 20-30 somethings have a class that is missional focused and disciple building and, no surprise, is video based. The 30-50 somethings have a class that reads a variety of books and discusses them (I got them to read Erwin McManus and they LOVED it). The 50pluses have the very traditional little booklet of lessons for Bible study.

Point? The classes are taught by people in those age groups.

So - again, postmodern worship, by and large, ought to be led by postmodern people, eh? Dare I say it? Youth ministry ought to be led (that is - content guided) by GASP youth.

Children ought to have some kind of say in HOW they are taught, too.

But it's all about framework. It doesn't help for me to say, "Okay you 20 somethings. You think there's nothing here for you at church . What do you WANT?" Um...heh...uh...

How about, "Okay - we're starting a new worship service...bible study...small group...for people your age. How should we do it? What would engage you? What would make you come in the first place? What would make you come back?"

Um...not sure any of that said much of anything...

*boink*

Sometimes it feels like everything in the church is done for the 50+ crowd. I know it isn't, but it sure feels that way sometimes.

My friend Rebecca and I went to see 27 dresses. We hated it. Every woman over 50 I have talked to has loved it. I think they made the movie for a younger crowd, but failed - and found an audience in the older gang.

The stereotype of "the Bingo church" is fading away, slowly. At one point I can't help but believe that Bingo was wildly popular for the youngins. I'm sure that it was hip at one point.

I guess what I'm trying to say is - ministry should be specialized when you're young because it will grow with you. My Sunday School class couldn't handle a postmodern lesson plan, but the kids need it. When they are old they'll still be needing that same lesson plan.

I'm kinda random. Do you think I'm on the right track?
Boink.

Oh crap - there's the problem. Wisdom... comes with experience. Especially failure.

I've got no problem with age targeted ministry. My problem is with people who say to me, "YOU give me what I want/need/like whatever..."

Here's my unscientific case-study:

The crossing - coffeehouse with minstries targeting folks 20-40 (though everyone is welcome) being planned and executed (the ministries that is) by people who are...are you ready for this...in their 20s and 30s.

50 something divorced woman whines to me. "Why do THEY get what they want. What about stuff for single parents? What about stuff for divorced people? Who's going to do that for us?"

My answer? Um...you?

*boink*

I couldn't possibly agree more ... but what is this, a political debate? I'd like to thank my beautiful wife and CNN?

I think that ministry is best when intergenerational ... but ... I feel that I could be talking about communism - I love it in theory; I haven't seen it work yet.

In my uber conservative class we talked about Jackson Pollock. The teacher was just too old and too conservative to get it. He saw no beauty ... and couldn't even admit that it was art. I was so pissed off I wanted to vomit (well, I wanted to vomit because I was sick, but his analysis didn't help.) I think sometimes that the leadership of the church is too old to understand what I need. And yeah, I'll be the first to say that it's self centered to think in these terms, but I can't help but think that any other thought is equally disasterous.

If we keep doing what we're doing we'll have no church in another 30 years.

So - my idea is simple. New churches that cater specifically to young people. My generation is the king of start-ups. We don't want to have to fight great aunt mildred for the right to play a damn guitar solo ... we want something new and fresh that speaks to us ... now ... how to temper that with wisdom?
boink

Funny thing is...one of the reasons that I thought of "young adult ministries" is that some of the really successful "youth groups" here in Warren have kids hanging on into their mid-twenties... THAT can't be healthy...

I'm not talking about "mixer games and cosmic bowling" as young adult ministries. We're more looking at "alternatives to bars" to hang out and offering age level appropriate Bible studies. You gotta understand, too, that here "young adult" is stretched into the late 30s...

You're right in this - we have to target young people with children. But we also have to target young people without children (that was where First UMC was roundly criticized a couple years ago - stuff for kids, middle-aged people, older people, young people WITH kids...but that little group - and here it IS a little group - felt left out...of course, most of the stuff offered for "middle aged" was really for "all ages"...)

Hmmm - that little stream of consciousness bit made me realize that we're dealing with a bit of a "it's all about me" entitlement mentality. That which is offered for "everybody" isn't tailored enough for "me".

So - why have ANY age defined categories?

*boink*

I've been wrestling with this issue. I think that a time of separationg is healthy. I think that we should focus young adult ministries on young families. It's weird that I'm not pushing for college age ministries, but I think that it promotes the idea that "youth group" should continue well into adulthood. I think that a break during college years ultimately helps people become healthy adults in the church.

I think the key is drawing young families and singles into the church after the time of separation.
Boink.

Young Adults - Why Go to Church?

Okay - here's one thought. One of the reasons that we're trying to set up this "coffeehouse" here in Warren is that, frankly, we don't have a lot of young adults in church and we're thinking that maybe "church" as we have done it for the last 100 or so years isn't really "working" for people, say, under 40 quite as well is it is for people, say, over 60...

So - I want to try to distill church down to the God-honoring core - and offer THAT to those in their 20s and 30s...

*boink* to you Michael...

So, topic for discussion. Young Adults in the church; yes or no.